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Post by CS on Oct 20, 2014 12:10:10 GMT -5
I think the way Emoti-Con's administration/staff is approaching con management is unsustainable.
Convention admins have to find a balance between two ways of interacting with attendees. The first is professionalism. The second is something more unique to the kind of con/geek culture: a kind of goodwill between organizers, volunteers, and attendees as members of the same community.
Both of these have to exist in some capacity. The first one is what makes conventions run smoothly and safely. The second one is cultural but no less important. It's a kind of tribalism that is very cool to experience. It's what keeps volunteers working when they're punchy and overtired. It's what you see when people rush to each others' aid without a second thought when a cosplayer needs an emergency costume repair or when a fifteen-year-old in the convention center bathroom needs a tampon or when someone mortified by stage fright at masquerade gets nothing but supportive cheering in response. It's what you see when organizers mess something up and their guests largely react with graciousness and good humor -- I once went to a convention that messed up registration so badly that we were in line for eight hours and most of us responded by bonding with the people around us and applauding when we got good news from con volunteers with frantic eyes. It's what motivates me to keep going to cons and I think a lot of people feel the same way. I also think it gets a lot of first time cons through their first growing pains.
Problem #1: Emoti-Con doesn't seem like it's being produced by well-intentioned members of the same community.
The first part of this is that it's basically impossible to tell what community Emoti-Con is even supposed to appeal to. I know, "internet" and "anything that can be on the internet," but that's not only a huge range of subjects, but also a target audience that includes most people in America. I can't tell if Emoti-Con would have people who share my interests and I can't tell if Emoti-Con programming would be relevant to my interests. If I wanted to talk about Facebook, I can just go on Facebook for free. If I want to talk about anything on the internet, I could go to a more specific gathering of people (like a gardening society) or, more likely, I could just find a forum or subreddit of people who share my interest. Again, for free. Why would I pay 80 dollars for an event that might have nothing to do with me? How could I develop any sense of shared culture towards Emoti-Con staff when I also have "liking the internet" in common with basically everyone I meet?
The second part is the way Emoti-Con admins/staff interact with people. The Emoti-Con/Dashcon response to problems sometimes feels like people trying really hard to sound like what they believe professionals sound like. Instead, maybe in part because Emoti-Con staff mostly interact with people trying to voice concerns or complaints, it comes off as distant, cold, and uncaring. And yes, I know Emoti-Con isn't affiliated with Dashcon, but the fact that Megg and Cain were also co-owners of Dashcon is relevant to how you're being perceived. You can insist up and down you can't talk about it legally, and I'm sure that's true, but the fact that you can't talk about it legally doesn't mean that people are going to forget what happened. I know some of what happened was a result of poor advertising, but changing the rules partway through and pocketing over 4,000 dollars of WTNV reservation money? Not a show of goodwill. Joking about it with ball pit bracelets? Comes off as flippant and unconcerned with how attendees were affected. Strangely high badge prices? Expecting people to pay a lot of money in order to put their faith in a not-so-certain result.
Lack of legal liability doesn't mean that you're not going to be tried in the court of public opinion, which is very, very relevant if you're planning on making money from holding events for paying members of the public. Especially in events usually held for subcultural communities, people want to see accountability. The vague, excuse-filled press releases and now the creation of a new LLC to avoid Dashcon's debts make people suspicious of you. It would be a great idea if the plan was to avoid accountability for Dashcon. It's a bizarre misstep for people hoping to continue organizing conventions. It would have been so much better for Megg and Cain to swallow their and say they were sorry, that they were first-time con organizers and that their disorganization affected people in inexcusable ways. The remaining PR problem would have been drastically reduced.
Pretty sure there's other threads on Emoti-Con staff being publicly racist/sexist/ableist and harassing members of the public. That's a huge issue that's just compounding the existing problem. Not gonna rehash it.
Problem #2: Emoti-Con staff don't come off as competent professionals.
A lot of us are used to interacting with organizations where we don't expect the people in charge to be parts of our community who are responsible to our community. However, we are used to standards of professionalism meaning that those businesses are able to deliver a service competently and that they will respond in certain ways to address problems with the service.
The problem is that Emoti-Con staff comes off as being able to do neither of those things. Delivering a service competently? Even outside of anything that happened at Dashcon, we were supposed to know about the guest list in September. No one has ever answered a post on the forums that were created for attendees.
We're told to contact Megg, Cain, etc., but there's no way to contact them on Tumblrs and people's emails are going unanswered. Staff members attack people for expressing their concerns or unhappiness with the service Emoti-Con has been providing rather than considering their role in customer service.
Professionally, the behavior of some members of the staff, including on blogs linked to from the official Emoti-Con pages, are things we wouldn't accept in any other business, but contacting people in charge and demanding that action be taken has no result. They're deflected by defenses of "But they're the people helping us get the con off the ground!" Unfortunately, you've already squandered the goodwill people feel toward con organizers and first year cons in particular. You've chosen the route of professionalism except when it's inconvenient.
TL;DR: You have taken both the need for professionalism and the need for goodwill between members of a sucbultural community and somehow managed to get the worst combined outcome. Something needs to change if you want to run a successful convention.
(What are the chances of someone just deleting this?)
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Post by Mongolian Mike on Oct 20, 2014 21:23:42 GMT -5
(What are the chances of someone just deleting this?) They'd have to read it first.
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just here to make this comment
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Post by just here to make this comment on Oct 20, 2014 22:16:15 GMT -5
Lack of legal liability doesn't mean that you're not going to be tried in the court of public opinion, which is very, very relevant if you're planning on making money from holding events for paying members of the public. Especially in events usually held for subcultural communities, people want to see accountability... Professionally, the behavior of some members of the staff, including on blogs linked to from the official Emoti-Con pages, are things we wouldn't accept in any other business, but contacting people in charge and demanding that action be taken has no result. They're deflected by defenses of "But they're the people helping us get the con off the ground!" Unfortunately, you've already squandered the goodwill people feel toward con organizers and first year cons in particular. You've chosen the route of professionalism except when it's inconvenient. Couldn't have said it better myself. The trust is just gone and instead of saying "We looked at ourselves and realized where we messed up" they fired a bunch of people, and let them take the fall; implying that Megg and Cain are perfect people who have done nothing wrong. This does not help gain back the trust which was lost. Not only is there a lot of evidence stating the contrary, but they have done nothing with Emoti-Con to restore people's faith. They've ignored their problems, taken no personal responsibility, and most importantly, they haven't even bothered to issue a real humble apology. Anything remotely looking like an apology has been wrapped in double speech that sounds more like "I apologize for this person's actions" and not "I apologize for my own mistakes and fuckups". It seems like they've indoctrinated their new staff into thinking this way as well. The new staff has spent so much time pumping up Megg and Cain and putting Voldemort down, and have failed to acknowledge things like the fact that Megg mistreated someone who flew from AU, that Cain yelled at Lochlan for something as simple as a room name (a room I might mention, which was across the hall from him and he could have walked to himself). They've ignored all eyewitness accounts and haven't even thanked the people who did volunteer at DashCon. They have failed to address several key rumors floating around about DashCon, and the most recent statement they made about DashCon was really just a disguise for an advertisement for Emoti-Con. I honestly don't know if the new staff is capable of earning the public's trust back, and while Megg and Cain may have had a chance to do so previously, I think that letting the racism and sexism slide, in addition to their own unprofessional behavior has made it impossible.
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Post by TwoWorlds on Oct 20, 2014 23:32:59 GMT -5
For what it's worth, every single one of their five "new" and "professional" staff is a college student that they picked up at Dashcon with little to no convention experience. I don't know whether they're actually capable of running a professional convention. They don't have the experience, they don't have the willingness to learn and it feels like they're thinking let's make ourselves feel important rather than let's put on a good event. I think the OP hit the nail on the head when they said that Everything they write sounds like a high school student trying to sound like a lawyer. It's almost painful to read, it doesn't do anything to instill confidence, and I don't think anyone is really fooled.
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commenting is pretty fun
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Post by commenting is pretty fun on Oct 20, 2014 23:58:54 GMT -5
For what it's worth, every single one of their five "new" and "professional" staff is a college student that they picked up at Dashcon with little to no convention experience. I don't know whether they're actually capable of running a professional convention. They don't have the experience, they don't have the willingness to learn and it feels like they're thinking let's make ourselves feel important rather than let's put on a good event. I think the OP hit the nail on the head when they said that Everything they write sounds like a high school student trying to sound like a lawyer. It's almost painful to read, it doesn't do anything to instill confidence, and I don't think anyone is really fooled. I would be honestly surprised if anyone had bought tickets to their event. The way they speak is enormously unsettling, and their website is only a half thought and isn't helpful at all on top of being filled with tasteless ball pit jokes. They so severely lack the tools to pull off any size event, let alone the one they seem to be aiming for, and all Cain seems able to do is complain about how unfortunate his life is as opposed to actually fixing their website, or making tumblr posts, or doing anything at all really, and Megg is aware of the problems in her staff, but refuses to acknowledge it. Clearly you're correct about their staff. They have social media managers, who aren't managing anything, and somewhere there are 8 or so other staff members who are doing.... what exactly? One of them outright claimed she isn't doing any work at all. It's so strange. If the social media managers aren't managing social media, and the 'spread sheet person' isn't making sheets, and Michaela is busy managing the social media for the social media managers.... What exactly is being done?? Are Megg and Cain doing any work at all? Because it doesn't seem like they are. Megg recently made a post claiming she 'sits on tumblr all day and is getting paid for it' [couldn't find the link, sorry, it was on her fantroll blog], but apparently she isn't doing Emoti Con work? It seems like the owners don't know anything, picked people who pretend to know things, and together they sit around coming up with ideas like a scare house, when they should be making a schedule and a guest list.
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Post by CS on Oct 21, 2014 0:09:52 GMT -5
Lack of legal liability doesn't mean that you're not going to be tried in the court of public opinion, which is very, very relevant if you're planning on making money from holding events for paying members of the public. Especially in events usually held for subcultural communities, people want to see accountability... Professionally, the behavior of some members of the staff, including on blogs linked to from the official Emoti-Con pages, are things we wouldn't accept in any other business, but contacting people in charge and demanding that action be taken has no result. They're deflected by defenses of "But they're the people helping us get the con off the ground!" Unfortunately, you've already squandered the goodwill people feel toward con organizers and first year cons in particular. You've chosen the route of professionalism except when it's inconvenient. Couldn't have said it better myself. The trust is just gone and instead of saying "We looked at ourselves and realized where we messed up" they fired a bunch of people, and let them take the fall; implying that Megg and Cain are perfect people who have done nothing wrong. This does not help gain back the trust which was lost. Not only is there a lot of evidence stating the contrary, but they have done nothing with Emoti-Con to restore people's faith. They've ignored their problems, taken no personal responsibility, and most importantly, they haven't even bothered to issue a real humble apology. Anything remotely looking like an apology has been wrapped in double speech that sounds more like "I apologize for this person's actions" and not "I apologize for my own mistakes and fuckups". It seems like they've indoctrinated their new staff into thinking this way as well. The new staff has spent so much time pumping up Megg and Cain and putting Voldemort down, and have failed to acknowledge things like the fact that Megg mistreated someone who flew from AU, that Cain yelled at Lochlan for something as simple as a room name (a room I might mention, which was across the hall from him and he could have walked to himself). They've ignored all eyewitness accounts and haven't even thanked the people who did volunteer at DashCon. They have failed to address several key rumors floating around about DashCon, and the most recent statement they made about DashCon was really just a disguise for an advertisement for Emoti-Con. I honestly don't know if the new staff is capable of earning the public's trust back, and while Megg and Cain may have had a chance to do so previously, I think that letting the racism and sexism slide, in addition to their own unprofessional behavior has made it impossible. Yeah, essentially. My favorite passive-aggressive sentence construction is the one that goes "I'm sorry for being too accommodating." Back when the press statement was first released, I figured it was probably legal advice to minimize liability, which makes sense. Most people who botch something that bad are going to cover themselves and run. I also didn't think they'd keep trying to do conventions, because the advice to point fingers at co-organizers and especially guests/talent is also something that's probably going to damage your future in hospitality and guest relations. Every time I check back to see where things are, I'm surprised to see that they're moving forward with the con. I think Megg and Cain are having a hard time separating the legal situation from the PR situation. Legally, they're covering themselves. In the process, though, they come off as untrustworthy and unlikable. It seems to me like they keep repeating their legal advice, but then are frustrated when "We're not affiliated with Dashcon" or "It was someone else's fault" isn't enough to win back people's goodwill and generosity. I'm with you that I'm pretty sure they've screwed the pooch on Emoti-Con. If I were Megg/Cain and I wanted to continue in professional event management, I'd want to release a cautious but genuine apology. Something along the lines of "The events surrounding Dashcon/Emoti-Con have obviously been very negative for many of those involved. I know a lot of fingers have been pointed regarding responsibility and I can't comment further, but I think the bottom line is that I co-organized two conventions that really let down members of this community. I value the kind of spirit and camaraderie that usually spring up around conventions, and as someone who has benefited a lot from my participation in the Tumblr community, I don't want to be involved in anything that damages the unique trust within those environments (idk, something, it's 1 am). At this time, I think it would be best to cancel Emoti-Con for now and to focus on gaining the experience necessary to better meet people's expectations in the future. I'm passionate about convention organization and management, and I intend to work/volunteer as staff at other cons before I consider trying to organize an event on my own again. As for right now, I hope that this can be the first step towards moving forward. I'm so sorry to those who have been hurt in this process." Then again, I'm not Megg or Cain. I'm also not a lawyer. My personal feelings aside, there is a part of me that kind of empathizes with Megg/Cain's situation. It sounds like they've dug themselves a pretty deep hole. Unfortunately, I think they've passed the point where they might have been able to climb back out with a viable convention for 2015. Better to try and climb out now than to keep digging straight down. I can't figure out if they still really think they're going to make back their money this way, and I can't really figure out what their new staff are thinking, either. Sorry for another essay post. Guess who's been procrastinating today? Side note: I'm assuming "Voldemort" refers to R0x@nne. Is this an in-joke I've missed, or have they filtered her name to the Dark Lord's? Because wow, that's seriously catty.
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Post by wow such catty on Oct 21, 2014 0:21:20 GMT -5
Couldn't have said it better myself. The trust is just gone and instead of saying "We looked at ourselves and realized where we messed up" they fired a bunch of people, and let them take the fall; implying that Megg and Cain are perfect people who have done nothing wrong. This does not help gain back the trust which was lost. Not only is there a lot of evidence stating the contrary, but they have done nothing with Emoti-Con to restore people's faith. They've ignored their problems, taken no personal responsibility, and most importantly, they haven't even bothered to issue a real humble apology. Anything remotely looking like an apology has been wrapped in double speech that sounds more like "I apologize for this person's actions" and not "I apologize for my own mistakes and fuckups". It seems like they've indoctrinated their new staff into thinking this way as well. The new staff has spent so much time pumping up Megg and Cain and putting Voldemort down, and have failed to acknowledge things like the fact that Megg mistreated someone who flew from AU, that Cain yelled at Lochlan for something as simple as a room name (a room I might mention, which was across the hall from him and he could have walked to himself). They've ignored all eyewitness accounts and haven't even thanked the people who did volunteer at DashCon. They have failed to address several key rumors floating around about DashCon, and the most recent statement they made about DashCon was really just a disguise for an advertisement for Emoti-Con. I honestly don't know if the new staff is capable of earning the public's trust back, and while Megg and Cain may have had a chance to do so previously, I think that letting the racism and sexism slide, in addition to their own unprofessional behavior has made it impossible. Yeah, essentially. My favorite passive-aggressive sentence construction is the one that goes "I'm sorry for being too accommodating." Back when the press statement was first released, I figured it was probably legal advice to minimize liability, which makes sense. Most people who botch something that bad are going to cover themselves and run. I also didn't think they'd keep trying to do conventions, because the advice to point fingers at co-organizers and especially guests/talent is also something that's probably going to damage your future in hospitality and guest relations. Every time I check back to see where things are, I'm surprised to see that they're moving forward with the con. I think Megg and Cain are having a hard time separating the legal situation from the PR situation. Legally, they're covering themselves. In the process, though, they come off as untrustworthy and unlikable. It seems to me like they keep repeating their legal advice, but then are frustrated when "We're not affiliated with Dashcon" or "It was someone else's fault" isn't enough to win back people's goodwill and generosity. I'm with you that I'm pretty sure they've screwed the pooch on Emoti-Con. If I were Megg/Cain and I wanted to continue in professional event management, I'd want to release a cautious but genuine apology. Something along the lines of "The events surrounding Dashcon/Emoti-Con have obviously been very negative for many of those involved. I know a lot of fingers have been pointed regarding responsibility and I can't comment further, but I think the bottom line is that I co-organized two conventions that really let down members of this community. I value the kind of spirit and camaraderie that usually spring up around conventions, and as someone who has benefited a lot from my participation in the Tumblr community, I don't want to be involved in anything that damages the unique trust within those environments (idk, something, it's 1 am). At this time, I think it would be best to cancel Emoti-Con for now and to focus on gaining the experience necessary to better meet people's expectations in the future. I'm passionate about convention organization and management, and I intend to work/volunteer as staff at other cons before I consider trying to organize an event on my own again. As for right now, I hope that this can be the first step towards moving forward. I'm so sorry to those who have been hurt in this process." Then again, I'm not Megg or Cain. I'm also not a lawyer. My personal feelings aside, there is a part of me that kind of empathizes with Megg/Cain's situation. It sounds like they've dug themselves a pretty deep hole. Unfortunately, I think they've passed the point where they might have been able to climb back out with a viable convention for 2015. Better to try and climb out now than to keep digging straight down. I can't figure out if they still really think they're going to make back their money this way, and I can't really figure out what their new staff are thinking, either. Sorry for another essay post. Guess who's been procrastinating today? Side note: I'm assuming "Voldemort" refers to R0x@nne. Is this an in-joke I've missed, or have they filtered her name to the Dark Lord's? Because wow, that's seriously catty. I definitely typed R0xanne so..... yeah looks like they have filtered her name. That's really really really catty. Voldemort? You managed to write at 1am a better press release than Megg and Cain did in three or so days. Props to you man. I understand being legally bound, but let's be real, they could have explained their through process better and been a lot more transparent. Or even just did something better while under the umbrella of DashCon. A better apology or a better interview or something.
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Post by Dumbledore on Oct 21, 2014 0:37:36 GMT -5
Cain refers to R0xanne as /she/ on his blog and said that I'm totally not surprised that they've made her name autocorrect to Voldemort - it feels like the kind of petty, vindictive thing they'd do, and lord know it's the sort of thing a professional convention would do. They're continuing to throw her under the bus rather than own up to their own failings, and I'd say that it's now completely impossible for them to regain any kind of goodwill. Completely impossible.
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Post by CS on Oct 21, 2014 0:39:20 GMT -5
Yeah, essentially. My favorite passive-aggressive sentence construction is the one that goes "I'm sorry for being too accommodating." Back when the press statement was first released, I figured it was probably legal advice to minimize liability, which makes sense. Most people who botch something that bad are going to cover themselves and run. I also didn't think they'd keep trying to do conventions, because the advice to point fingers at co-organizers and especially guests/talent is also something that's probably going to damage your future in hospitality and guest relations. Every time I check back to see where things are, I'm surprised to see that they're moving forward with the con. I think Megg and Cain are having a hard time separating the legal situation from the PR situation. Legally, they're covering themselves. In the process, though, they come off as untrustworthy and unlikable. It seems to me like they keep repeating their legal advice, but then are frustrated when "We're not affiliated with Dashcon" or "It was someone else's fault" isn't enough to win back people's goodwill and generosity. I'm with you that I'm pretty sure they've screwed the pooch on Emoti-Con. If I were Megg/Cain and I wanted to continue in professional event management, I'd want to release a cautious but genuine apology. Something along the lines of "The events surrounding Dashcon/Emoti-Con have obviously been very negative for many of those involved. I know a lot of fingers have been pointed regarding responsibility and I can't comment further, but I think the bottom line is that I co-organized two conventions that really let down members of this community. I value the kind of spirit and camaraderie that usually spring up around conventions, and as someone who has benefited a lot from my participation in the Tumblr community, I don't want to be involved in anything that damages the unique trust within those environments (idk, something, it's 1 am). At this time, I think it would be best to cancel Emoti-Con for now and to focus on gaining the experience necessary to better meet people's expectations in the future. I'm passionate about convention organization and management, and I intend to work/volunteer as staff at other cons before I consider trying to organize an event on my own again. As for right now, I hope that this can be the first step towards moving forward. I'm so sorry to those who have been hurt in this process." Then again, I'm not Megg or Cain. I'm also not a lawyer. My personal feelings aside, there is a part of me that kind of empathizes with Megg/Cain's situation. It sounds like they've dug themselves a pretty deep hole. Unfortunately, I think they've passed the point where they might have been able to climb back out with a viable convention for 2015. Better to try and climb out now than to keep digging straight down. I can't figure out if they still really think they're going to make back their money this way, and I can't really figure out what their new staff are thinking, either. Sorry for another essay post. Guess who's been procrastinating today? Side note: I'm assuming "Voldemort" refers to R0x@nne. Is this an in-joke I've missed, or have they filtered her name to the Dark Lord's? Because wow, that's seriously catty. I definitely typed R0xanne so..... yeah looks like they have filtered her name. That's really really really catty. Voldemort? You managed to write at 1am a better press release than Megg and Cain did in three or so days. Props to you man. I understand being legally bound, but let's be real, they could have explained their through process better and been a lot more transparent. Or even just did something better while under the umbrella of DashCon. A better apology or a better interview or something. Eek. Whose choice was that? It's back to that thing where the professional appearance is really superficial. No way there's any hard feelings there... Ha, thanks. It's kind of hard because you have to weasel around just saying you fucked up. The finger-pointing seems so unnecessary, though. Why not say "It was a first-time con, there were organization problems, we're sorry for letting you down and we're taking specific steps to avoid these issues in the future"? Obviously in a more heartfelt way, but it would have made things a whole lot easier. They played the short game.
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commenting contiues
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Post by commenting contiues on Oct 21, 2014 0:46:27 GMT -5
I definitely typed R0xanne so..... yeah looks like they have filtered her name. That's really really really catty. Voldemort? You managed to write at 1am a better press release than Megg and Cain did in three or so days. Props to you man. I understand being legally bound, but let's be real, they could have explained their through process better and been a lot more transparent. Or even just did something better while under the umbrella of DashCon. A better apology or a better interview or something. Eek. Whose choice was that? It's back to that thing where the professional appearance is really superficial. No way there's any hard feelings there... Ha, thanks. It's kind of hard because you have to weasel around just saying you fucked up. The finger-pointing seems so unnecessary, though. Why not say "It was a first-time con, there were organization problems, we're sorry for letting you down and we're taking specific steps to avoid these issues in the future"? Obviously in a more heartfelt way, but it would have made things a whole lot easier. They played the short game. Absolutely no hard feelings at all. What are feelings anyway, show me feelings! That's not a feeling. Man for as much as they blame Night Vale they sure sound a lot like one of their characters.... It is really difficult, you do have that, but even if you take away the specifics, as you did, it avoids publishing the emails they got from Night Vale (which was not cool) and allows them some leeway. It takes responsibility and they would have been much better off in the long run with something like that. You're 100% correct, the short game was all they had in mind, and that really helps illustrate just how inexperienced and out of their depth they are. Any convention is difficult, but it seems like they can't even google 'good PR practices' to save their lives, let alone run a whole convention.
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Post by Dumbledore on Oct 21, 2014 0:53:38 GMT -5
I'm hoping that someone is taking screenshots of all of these comments. Also I'd recommend keeping an eye on the section that says who's been online - it should say whether there's been a staff member (either the official Emoti-Con account or iswearinitalian, who's also staff).
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commenter extraordinaire
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Post by commenter extraordinaire on Oct 21, 2014 0:54:28 GMT -5
I am going to stark taking caps now, as many people as possible prolly should as well
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Post by wow on Oct 21, 2014 2:02:50 GMT -5
So what are the chances they read this thread now? Or do you wager it'll be deleted?
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Post by Poet-y on Oct 21, 2014 15:51:02 GMT -5
I've capped everything, so far! <3 Lovely discussions, people, definitely want to save them.
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Post by I wonder on Oct 21, 2014 19:40:30 GMT -5
So we know that Voldemort is changed. Has anyone mentioned Lochlan? Posting so I can see if it changes.
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